Very funny. Thanks for the comic relief.
Very funny. Thanks for the comic relief.
You logged in before he was able to attack you again. Duh? If someone had been attacking you with Ichi's you would have logged in with the same thing done to you. Either he gave up or you logged in before the DP was over. Either way, regardless of what was used, the same thing would have happened.
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I want to be clear this... Are you suggesting that 4 full waves of Octo's are going to produce exactly the same results as 4 full waves of Ichi's would?Originally Posted by Randy Ex-Mason
Tommy: Are you kidding me? Now you are just trying to be a jerk. I already read your page long essay and made one of my own. I'm not doubling the time I spent reading and typing all that just for your benefit. Apparently you already know what it is that I missed. So why don't you stop being a prick and just tell us all? No point in me reading and finding if someone already has. Just post it already. Jeez.
That's what I read too.
(editted because what I didn't clearly read was names)
*sigh*
Last edited by blinkgoddess; 05-14-2010 at 07:01 PM.
Randy: I'll do the work for you since you are unwilling to see it. I will use your numbers: 6mins for Octos (build and attack) and 18min for Ichis (build and attack)
There will be two scenarios: First is one in which monsters are pre-built, second is one where you must build before beginning.
Wave 1:
Octos 0mins - 6mins
Ichis 0mins - 18mins
Wave 2:
Octos 6mins - 12mins
Ichis 18mins - 36mins
Wave 3:
Octos 12mins - 18mins
Ichis 36mins - 54mins
Wave 4: (To avoid DP, wait for 1hr after completion of 1st wave)
Octos 60mins - 66mins
Ichis 60mins - 78mins
Wave 5: (To avoid DP, wait for 1hr after completion of 2nd wave)
Octos 66mins - 72mins
Ichis 78mins - 96mins
Wave 6: (To avoid DP, wait for 1hr after completion of 3rd wave)
Octos 72mins - 78mins
Ichis 96mins - 114mins
Wave 7: (To avoid DP, wait for 1hr after completion of 4th wave)
Octos 120mins - 126mins
Ichis 120mins - 138mins
Wave 8: (To avoid DP, wait for 1hr after completion of 5th wave)
Octos 126mins - 132mins
Ichis 138mins - 156mins
Wave 9: (To avoid DP, wait for 1hr after completion of 6th wave)
Octos: 132mins - 138mins
Ichis 156mins - 174mins
Wave 10: (To avoid DP, wait for 1hr after completion of 7th wave)
Octos 180mins - 186mins
Ichis 180mins - 198mins
As can be seen here, there is a repeating triplet. Upon the first attack of the triplet, Octos are 12min ahead of Ichis, upon the second they are 24mins ahead, and upon the 3rd they are 36mins ahead. Once the triplet repeats, this starts over. So the Octos are ALWAYS varying between 12mins - 36mins ahead of the Ichis in a wave vs wave scenario.
Due to the fact that as a series of waves get progressively longer. 12mins, 24mins and 36mins become a smaller and smaller fraction of the whole. For example, 12mins is 20% of 60mins, 10% of 120mins, 5% of 240mins... etc. Thus, the only time at which the Octos produce twice as fast (or more) than Ichis is during the first three waves. After that, due to DP avoidance, Ichis are able to catch up and always remain 12mins - 36mins away from Octos, despite the hours that pass by. Failure to avoid DP results in 1hr progressions of useless time, which is ALWAYS longer than not avoiding it.
So overall, while I was wrong in saying that Ichis are only ever 12mins behind Octos (as they are sometimes 36mins behind) my point still stands that Octos are nowhere near beating Ichis out on a 2-1 production speed beyond 3 waves. Since very few bases can be taken by a mere 3 Octo waves, we can rightfully say that the 1, 2 and 3 wav scenarios are not a truly valid counter except in newbish bases.
I would like to add to all of this by pointing out a revelation I recently had as I amassed 96 Octos for sheer amusement and sent them into battle: Octos do 15 damage, Ichis do 50. That is more than three times as much. For almost all other units in which the Tier merely doubles the health and damage and ridiculously ups the prod time, in this case the Ichis actually do more than 3.33 times as much damage as the Octos. Due to this pure fact (SPLASH tower and traps exempt) the Ichis are able to do MORE than the same amount of damage as the equivalent housing amount of Octos. Thus, Ichis can blow down Towers at a rate of 3.33 divided by 2 times faster than Octos (since Octos have twice the numbers) Due to the fact that the Ichis do 1.66 times more damage per second than the Octos, we cannot truly compare wave vs wave. We already established that SPLASHes and trap exploit the Octo weakness of number but now we have also realized that in addition to that, Ichis eliminate enemy firepower at a faster rate - enabling them to live longer by means of avoiding damage, and not just taking it.
When we combine the 1.66 times faster damage rate and the strength against SPLASHes and traps for the Ichi advantage, we see quite clearly that Ichis will not require as many waves as Octos. And so the time advantage the Octos have post-3rd wave disappears entirely since Ichis can end their waves 1 or 2 waves earlier than Octos.
The only case we can continue to argue over is the cases involving less than 4 waves of Octos. In situations regarding 1 wave of Octos, can Ichis do better in that 1 wave? It depends on whether or not the Octo wave cleared everything or not. It is impossible to do better than to complete eerything. In the case of 2 waves or 3, can the Ichis do it in 1 less wave? These are the things you can argue if you think you can. And as per my latest argument to you - this was exactly what I was saying. For all series of less than 4 waves, you can make a case, but beyond 3 waves you run into a problem with DP where Octos no longer have production time superiority over Ichis.
Hahahahahahaha!
I even provide you with links to both parts and you still go beating about the bush. Good one Curtis lol. Last ounce of respect i had for you just vaporized. I have no doubt that you know a lot about the game (it's quite apparent, as it is with many posters). To be quite frank, and i don't like to get personal on forum, but you sir are a waste of time.
Wow... looks like two people beat me to the punch on this one... you really asked for an ass-kickin by saying that 4 waves of Octos will do the same things as 4 waves of Ichis. Or perhaps the fact you neglected to actually use the number 4 in your statement was intentionally vague. As just mentioned, 96 Octos x 15 dps vs 48 Ichis x 50 dps. We are looking at a strength difference of 1440 dps vs 2400 dps in terms of entire group. So if there were no traps or SPLASHes, Ichis will still do far more damage than Octos per wave.
I am a waste of time? You are the one whining like a baby that I didn't respond to something. If you don't know what that is, you are a fool. If you DO know what that is, TELL ME. I'm not reading two pages of stuff I've already read and typed already. You are the one wasting time. You are like a woman! "If you don't know what the problem is, I won't tell you" JEEZ. And you think I'm the problem? Just tell me what I missed already. Otherwise everything you've said is null and void.
Edit: Did you think that your links somehow highlighted the portions of the posts you wanted me to read? They didn't. All they did was point out which post. And both posts you liked to filled my entire screen twice over each. I'm not reading all that. Done that already. I'm convinced I didn't miss anything. Prove me wrong.
Last edited by Curtis Smale; 05-14-2010 at 06:54 PM.
Curtis:
I don't have to prove anything roflmao. Apparently i don't have the same urge for approval as you do. For now i'm getting quite enough satisfaction watching you constantly typing "prove it" or "show me" or variations thereof, but being unwilling to put in the effort to go back and look when you are told where it is already posted. I ought to be quite offended really, that you for so many pages have ignored much of what i have written (or not understood it). But i'm not. It's a forum. Forum happens.
Btw, i'm guessing Randy meant that the outcome of blink logging in and repairing was the same as in he lost whichever effort he did, regardless of which unit he used. If he had thrown ichis or crabs and she had logged in prior to any looting, it would still be a wasted effort. But ofcourse i am guessing.
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